Dale Johnson: Now, as you know, we always like to think biblically about the topics that we discuss here. This issue of insecurity and self-hate certainly comes in different degrees. I’m so grateful that I have my friend, Jeremy Pierre to help us think biblically about this. Jeremy is the dean of the Billy Graham School of Missions and Evangelism and Ministry as well as a professor of biblical counseling at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He’s authored several books, including the Dynamic Heart in Daily Life, The Pastor and Counseling, When Home Hurts: Responding Wisely to Domestic Abuse in Your Church, and the children’s storybook Bible, God With Us: A Journey Home. He also serves as a staff pastor at Clifton Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky. He’s married to Sarah, and together they’re busy raising five children.
Jeremy, thank you so much for joining us. So appreciate the work that you’re doing there at Southern, the books that you’re writing, the classes that you’re teaching, the ways in which you’re learning to lead the Billy Graham School. Congratulations on that by the way, and thank you for being here, to help us think about this issue of insecurity and self-hate.
Jeremy Pierre: Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Dale. I’m really thankful for your ministry as well.
Dale Johnson: Thank you, brother. Listen, as we work through this, as I mentioned, this is an issue that comes in degrees. Some people are at the place of being at the very bottom; others deal with insecurity on different levels. And I want to jump right into this. What are some of the ways or what is insecurity in the ways in which you’re talking about it here? And how does it affect a person’s relationships?
Jeremy Pierre: Yeah. So, insecurity is one of those flexible words, right? That can mean something sort of low boiling or boiling over and the harsher end of things, which we could maybe even describe as self-hatred at that point. So, you know, insecurity and self-hate it’s basically our hearts’ attempt to condemn the person that I am in preference for who I ought to be, or how I perceive I ought to be, and so that really can take on a vicious cycle because it boils down to a problem with our self-perception. Are we seeing ourselves in a way consistent with the way the Scriptures talk about us with God’s preferences and God’s values? Or have we taken on some kind of alternate set of values or standards that we’re measuring ourselves by and finding ourselves lacking, and thus getting really upset and frustrated with ourselves?
Dale Johnson: So, as we think about getting frustrated with ourselves, some people may take that in different ways. In what ways do we see insecurity involving sin? Because, I mean, that’s really important to us, and in what ways does it involve suffering?
Jeremy Pierre: Yeah, that’s a good question. I think we have to approach it with both hands because that’s how Scripture tends to approach troubles that we face in our lives. There’s an element of responsibility that we have for it, a way of seeing ourselves or seeing relationships or seeing the world that does not square with what it means to trust what God says. And then there’s elements of it where because of the difficult circumstances we face, we often have these ideas and standards pressed in upon us. So there’s an element of sin. There’s an element of suffering and insecurity, and I think it’s important to sort of address both of those things as you help someone. So, let me maybe start by commenting on the suffering part of it. The external pressures that are pressed upon a person, you know, even there they’re sort of low-grade or boiling-over versions of it, right? We all know the low-grade stuff, the expectations that are placed on us, the comments we receive, parental expectations of why aren’t you more like him or why aren’t you measuring up there? We all experienced that, and that’s a real thing that will have an impact on our self-perception.
But then there’s this sort of boiling over ones that the extreme examples related to if someone is abused or harshly treated or if they were raised under parents who were constantly calling into question everything about them and saying cruel things, or maybe a romantic relationship that was manipulative or something like that. Those are real things that we have to help people process, and so I’m going to get to the sin part, but prior to that, we have to recognize that there is a suffering element to it. We are fallen creatures living in a fallen world so that fallen world will have an effect upon us. The question then is, how will we respond to those effects? And that’s where we sort of then help someone. Okay, we’ve recognized these pressures and externals that you face. Now let’s ask a question, how are you responding to them and the call to trust the Lord is not a simplistic call. It’s a very complex call that affects everything, including how I see myself. And so you know, I’m going to say this in a really simple way, though, in counseling, you’re going to be doing this in a very subtle and long-term, it won’t be this straightforward I guess is what I’m saying, but it’s sort of boils down to how do I learn to listen to what God says is most true of me and therefore to mute or turn down the volume on these alternate ideas and alternate voices that are speaking into how I perceive myself? And so, that sort of simple principle guides a rather. You know, at times can be arduous process of sanctification, really, because it’s learning to not be intimidated and fearful by the standards that are pressed in on me. But instead to believe that God’s perspective is the—I’m sorry, I’m going to get theological here—the omni-perspective dip, the omniscient perspective of who I actually am. So the things He emphasizes are the things that are most important in my self-perception.
Dale Johnson: Yeah. I love the way that you’re helping us discern and distinguish between sin and suffering here. We’re not pushing ourselves away from sin that we may be responsible for in response to suffering, but we understand sin has a context in the situations in our lives and the experiences that we have in life, and we want to be able to address wisely those experiences of suffering and how we’re trying to help a person and comfort them through that process. But then also hold them accountable.
Now, this is where we turn our direction into seeking wisdom from the Lord. And how should someone seek the Lord for help when they exhibit this problem of insecurity consistently?
Jeremy Pierre: Well, it starts by first identifying what those insecurities are. If we’re defining in the way I just said, so the ways in which I see myself that are not aligning with how God sees me or how He instructs me to see myself. And so, you know, I think of 1 Corinthians 4, that’s not a passage on insecurities, but it is a passage on Paul discussing “Look, I don’t have a right to judge myself. You all don’t have a right to judge me because the Judge, the actual one whose opinion counts is what I’m going for here.” And he says, in that context, I’m just a steward. That’s all I am. I’m just a servant. That’s how you should see me. That’s how I should see myself. I don’t need to measure up to all your standards of, like, the super-apostles being really a lot more impressive than me, well-spoken, seemingly successful in an earthly way. He’s like, I know I suffer, I stutter, I know I’m not impressive, but that’s not my standard. My standard is, am I doing what God has called me to do.
And so for us, that translates because your life, the purpose of it, for all of us, is, am I doing what God has uniquely called me to do in my location, in my situation, given my gifting, given all these things? And that’s far more important than being pretty, being athletic, being successful, and having your retirement account at a certain level; all of those things creep into how we measure ourselves, but those things are not unimportant, okay? But they’re less important than what I just said, and if we keep those priorities straight, we keep insecurity from having a dominating effect on how then we relate to other people.
Dale Johnson: Man, even when you describe that, I’m feeling better in my own situation because honestly, we put up standards of living that we grasp from all different areas to measure ourselves by, and sometimes it just takes the pressure off to understand what God expects, what He desires, and that anything He calls us to do He empowers us to accomplish by His spirit, and by His Word. And Jeremy, I think us understanding insecurity in these ways, breaking this down, not dismissing these experiences, not acting as if they shouldn’t happen, not calling somebody else to something we think ought to be standard but pointing them to the standard of Christ. It also gives meaning and purpose to pursue what God has called us to do.
Brothers, this has been really helpful to think about insecurity in these ways, calling us to the Scripture for our measure and standard. Thanks so much for your time.
Jeremy Pierre: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
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