Dale Johnson: This week on the podcast, I’m grateful to have with me Dr. Jonathan Moorhead. He served for 17 years in Russia and the Czech Republic and is now a pastor of Geneva Bible Church in Switzerland. He teaches for the Master’s Academy International and is a fellow with ACBC. He has an MDiv and a THM from the Master’s Seminary and a PhD from Dallas Theological Seminary.
He’s published The Trial of the 16th Century: Calvin & Servetus. [1] And next year, Christian Focus will publish his book, Directive Biblical Counseling: Six Steps to Counseling Yourselves and Others. Jonathan and his wife, Sharon, have five children and Sharon is also certified with ACBC. Brother, it’s so good to have you on the podcast. Looking forward to our time together today.
Jonathan Moorhead: Thank you for having me.
Dale Johnson: Now at our recent annual conference, you had an opportunity to present a breakout and this was the subject. And it’s so good to revisit these key elements because I think sometimes we forget these. Even for those who’ve been doing counseling for a long time, we get in ruts and we forget some of the most important pieces.
So, as you’re a counselor walking into the first session, describe to me some of the things that you’re thinking, the things that are preparing you, your heart to walk into that first session that are critical for you to understand what’s happening.
Jonathan Moorhead: Right. So before I go into the first session, there’s a little bit of paperwork that I do with people as far as what we traditionally know as the PDI, Personal Data Inventory intake forms. And so I would have already familiarized myself with the case and the problems using the intake form that I use.
And I also require before the first session, every counselee to read Stuart Scott’s little pamphlet, From Pride to Humility [2], because if there’s anything that I can do to make someone more teachable prior to session one, I want to do that because a lot of people come in, they’re ready to fight, deflect, defend, attack, and to humble them is very helpful to cause them to want to listen. But of course, when they come in, you want to be very encouraging, give great hope. And I actually write an email to them beforehand to try to encourage them that expect the Lord will do great things in their lives as they come to counseling and seek His face.
And then when they come in, of course, you generally want to hear a life story. Tell me the 10-minute version of your life, ups and downs and major struggles, and be sure to give me your Christian testimony. I want to hear that. Now, of course, in the intake form, they’re there to write out their testimony, but today you can have AI write that for you. So I’d never want to take that for granted. I want to hear a verbal confession. And then usually, always, there’s some diagnostic questions I want to ask to be sure they understand the gospel, that they can show me that they believe in justification by faith alone.
And then once you hear the whole story, I want to give them hope, particularly from 1 Corinthians 10:13, that God is faithful to help them through these things as they humble themselves under His word in the context of the local church.
Dale Johnson: I want to hear more about that passage that you mentioned, 1 Corinthians 10. I think it’s important that we think about the trajectory, because honestly, the first session really begins to set the trajectory for where we hope to go. I love what you described about even setting the tone before they get into the counseling room, giving them a certain expectation, something to look forward to, what they can expect when they get into the counseling room, what we’re trying to achieve.
But there’s a certain way that you’re thinking as well that’s driven by that particular passage that sets a trajectory for where you hope to go, not just in session one, but where you’re going throughout the whole time together. Describe a little bit about that trajectory.
Jonathan Moorhead: Yes, when I went through certification, it was very intimidating to me. And maybe your listeners are in the same boat as they’re preparing for certification or as they went through certification. It’s a scary thing. Even for pastors, it’s scary, right? And so I think probably the easiest part of it is, well, session one, you kind of know what you’re going to do. You’re listening for testimony, life struggles, you want to give hope and those things.
But what do you do session two, session three, session four? And that’s where a lot of people want to tap out and say, I don’t have that kind of expertise. And so when I was going through certification, you have to do the observational videos. And I remember watching Randy Patton as he counseled Trey and Deb. Do you remember that?
Dale Johnson: Oh, I remember, yeah. No Bible, no TV. I remember that from that session, yeah.
Jonathan Moorhead: And he listened to their stories and he said, Hey, I think by God’s grace, we can tackle your troubles in 12 sessions. And I’m thinking 12 sessions, like why 12 sessions? Why not 10 or eight or three months worth of sessions? But the more I began to listen to him and others and read resources, I realized no matter what the counseling case was, it could be pornography, it could be marriage, fear, anxiety, depression, whatever. I kept seeing the same theological themes come up no matter what the case was.
And so you always have to talk about the heart. You always talk about the sovereignty of God and His will for your life. The gospel is the key to change. Humble love, confession and forgiveness, the glory of God, all these things start coming up over and over. So I thought, well, what if I were to prioritize them and teach one of them per session after, of course, going over homework and journaling and all these things, and then maybe preempt some things and not just follow the lead of the counselee?
And so the question then is what is the most high-priority item out of those that I just listed? And theologically, it’s a no brainer. It’s got to be the glory of God because as we look at 1 Corinthians 10:31, we see that whether we eat or drink, whatever we do, we’re to do everything for the glory of God. 2 Corinthians 5, the same thing, we make it our aim to please Him. Colossians 3:17, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the Westminster Shorter Catechism [3], question number one, reflects that. What is the chief end of man? It is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.
So how can that not be the first major theme of counseling? Because all counseling issues are then interpreted as worship issues. And we want to impress that very heavily that no matter what you’re doing in your thought life, in your speech, your actions, it is all worship. That God has created all of His image bearers to be worshipers. And so to impress upon them that counseling is not about you before it is first about God.
Dale Johnson: Yeah, that’s good. And, you know, as I’m thinking about what you’re describing, you know, Jonathan, so many people give assent to that concept that, yes, our life is about the glory of God. And something radically alters in people’s minds when we get into a counseling context. It’s not that we try to set that intellectual assent aside, but it’s almost as if we forget, well, that’s actually the most critical aspect of our daily life and how we’ve gotten involved in problems to begin with.
So, bring that intellectual doctrine, the concept that we certainly give intellectual assent to, bring that practically speaking into the counseling room. How do you present something like that? Are you working in some sort of like doctrinal instruction through the process? Practically, how are you helping a person to have that focus and that trajectory?
Jonathan Moorhead: So there’s a debate, how much teaching time do you want to have in a counseling session? And I would say for all these things that I go through, maybe five, at most 15 minutes, and it’s not a monologue, it’s a dialogue. We’re looking at a text, we’re looking at context, you’re teaching hermeneutics, you’re getting them to read and observe, and you have to be quiet and let them struggle through interpreting the text.
And so a majority of my counseling time is going to be spent on homework, review, journaling, Bible memory, spiritual disciplines, and those things. But at the end of the session, I’m going to, particularly the first session, let’s open up the Word of God together. And I want to start every session or teaching time with a big picture question. And so for number one is what is the most important reason why God created you? And let them answer. And sometimes it’s for my joy and my happiness or whatever.
It’s like, hey, let’s compare that then to what the Word of God says. And so for my go-to, it is 1 Corinthians 10:31 that we already cited. And as I’m now taking people through the certification process, I’ve noticed there’s a tendency for counselors to kind of quickly read that, you agree, I agree, let’s move on. And you can’t do that. You have to camp there. Because a lot of people don’t even know what does it mean to glorify God? How would you explain that to a five-year-old child?
And so it goes down to the basics of I’m motivated to do everything I think, do and say to please God. I just want to make God happy. That’s what glorifies Him. And so once you’ve got that established in their thinking, and that actually starts between your ears, how you think you glorify God that way, you can’t stop there because still the glory of God is kind of a cliche. I want to make it practical.
So if I’m counseling a married couple, for example, I look at the man, I always want to direct at the male first. And I ask the question, hey, brother, why do you do the dishes for your wife? And watch him struggle through that. It’s like, okay, I do the dishes because if I don’t, there’s going to be conflict. Or positively, I do the dishes, but okay, why do you do it? What’s your motive? Well, later on, you know, I expect a quid pro quo, something back from my service. And at that point, it kind of clicks for some guys like, oh, I’m motivated to do what I do to get something to curve back on myself.
And so you read the text, you explain the text, you make the text applicable. And then you watch God work in that situation. Of course, then you want to have homework that backs that up with Bible memory, extra reading, two-path chart, for example. I present that in the counseling case, too. We all know what that is, the Y chart, you go self-centered path, God-centered path.
But from my chart that I have, down the middle is written worship, because whether you go the left side of the chart or the right, you’re worshiping. And so that plus homework helps to solidify that as the foundation, the correct trajectory that, again, counseling is not about you before it is first about God, because all counseling issues are worship issues.
Dale Johnson: Now, even in that exercise, what you’re doing is you’re helping them do something that they probably don’t do on a regular basis, which is now start to think about the problems in a Godward orientation, that their life now some sort of takes a turn towards having to think about how God and the concept of God and what he demands of our life is related to the daily tasks that they’re putting themselves to. So it helps to shift their mind, really, to start asking a question that’s probably not normal to them in some way, shape, or form.
Talk a little bit about the fruit that you’ve seen from this approach, building this trajectory, what you’ve seen in the lives of individuals.
Jonathan Moorhead: Well, it is counterintuitive. Like, you expect to go into counseling. We’re told to go into counseling and make it all about the counselor. It’s about fixing them, their problems, making them happy as soon as possible. It’s all about them. And to come and say, it’s not all about you, that can be quite offensive to people. They’re not expecting that.
And so, just as an example, the very first time that I tried this approach, it was in another country. And I say that to encourage people, because some people could say, well, this is a British approach, American approach, Western approach. It’s not going to work in my country. But God’s Word is transcultural. It’s going to have an effect no matter what country you’re in. So this is an Eastern country I was in.
First time I met with a married couple using this, and it was what we would call from a human perspective, a hard case. People that are Christians have a level of theological education. I met with them in their backyard just looking at them. It was intimidating. The husband sitting there with arms crossed, just this cold, prideful, arrogant look, just oozing arrogance and having all the theological answers and disdain for his wife, not even looking at her. And then I look at her, and she is slouched in the chair, just despondent, looks like a zombie, not responsive at all. No energy. They both express, and this is just heartbreaking, they both express, we don’t love each other. But as Christians, we know we can’t get a divorce, so we don’t know what to do.
And so I went through that simple presentation, like 1 Corinthians 10:31, explain the text, and then make it applicable. And so I asked the husband, and I said, brother, why do you do the dishes for your wife? Here’s the two options, like where are you at? And just to sit for a moment and watch him think through that. And that cold, hard, arrogant man, just looking at his face, became red, his eyes filled with tears. And that’s the point as a counselor, you want to jump on that, right? Because he was silent. And I said, brother, what are you thinking? And he looked at me, I’ll never forget. He said, I have failed as a husband.
What did I do? I read the text, I explained the text, just make it applicable. Nothing innovative, nothing revolutionary. Every Christian can do that. What’s been told to me is Sunday school biblical counseling. I love that, because that means that every Christian can do it. And that’s great news, because every Christian is called to do biblical counseling. And so now that couple is actually, they’ve been graduated for many years, and people are being saved under their ministry. They’re doing biblical counseling. It’s because we started the trajectory in the right direction.
Dale Johnson: What you were doing was setting the tone for, he had never thought about washing the dishes as an opportunity of worship. He’d never thought about his life being a God-oriented orientation as something as mundane as his time in the kitchen or his relationship to his wife in full. And that really starts to really redirect the way he thinks now about anything that’s going to come up in the counseling room. Of course, there’s more to be done, but we’re talking about the first session. Jonathan, this is really helpful to know how to set really the tone and then the trajectory in a first session. Brother, thanks for the practicality here.
Jonathan Moorhead: Thank you for having me.