Heath Lambert: Today on the podcast, we’re talking about casting out demons. We have talked about the issue of the demonic and the reality that the devil, though a defeated foe, is a real foe in the Christian Life. And in the world in which we live that we’re going to encounter the demonic in a fallen world, and we need to know how to respond to it. And Amy today, we’re talking about whether or not we should cast out such demons.
Question: Yeah, and as you said, we know that demons are real because the Bible tells us they’re real, and now, I’m wondering should Christians cast out demons?
Heath Lambert: No, Christians should not cast out demons. So, this is an important question because the devil is real. Anybody who believes the Bible believes that that’s controversial for people who don’t believe the Bible. But if you believe the Bible, you have to confess that the devil is real. And so, for Christians, who believe the Bible and therefore admit the existence of demons, they want to know how to respond to the demonic. And many people think that the biblical response to demons today is to cast them out. But I don’t actually believe that the Bible teaches that Christians today should respond to the presence of the demonic by casting out demons.
Question: So, the Bible talks about casting out demons and shows people doing it. So, what should we do with these texts from the Bible?
Heath Lambert: Yeah, great question. It is true. The Bible is full of examples of people casting out demons. And I’m in the uncomfortable position of saying, well, Christians shouldn’t cast out demons. What do we do with that? I think when you pay attention to the texts that talk about casting out demons and when you pay attention, particularly to who is casting out demons, it helps us with the question. So, really in the Bible, there are only a few people who cast out demons. So, Jesus casts out demons, the disciples, the apostles, and the ministry of the 72 in the gospels, Phillip and Paul. All are characterized as casting out demons. Here is the issue with those people, as it’s relatively common as it is in the gospels and the book of Acts, the people who do it are people who have by right of their office the authority to cast out demons.
So, Jesus, as the Son of God, invokes His authority as the Son of God to cast out demons. Or they are given express permission by God through Jesus Christ to cast out demons. So, the disciples, Apostles 72, Philip, and Paul, those people receive permission direct permission to cast out demons from Jesus. That’s one group of people that cast out demons. The other group of people in the New Testament that cast out demons are actually unbelievers. So if you look up and think about examples like Matthew 7:22, Mark 9:38-40, and Luke 9:49-50, these are reports coming that unbelievers have cast out demons and shouldn’t they quit doing that. And Jesus says, don’t tell him to do it. If anybody’s doing that, that it won’t be long before they are with us as believers. Actually, it’s interesting that in those accounts, it’s never endorsed that they were actually casting out demons, the report has come, but I don’t think we can say for a fact that we know they were casting out demons, just that the report has been issued. And Jesus makes clear as even the people who gave the report made clear that the people who were doing it were not believers. And then we have the issue with the sons of Sceva in Acts 19:11 there in a few verses after that, and that goes terribly with the demons actually basically telling them to get bent and attacking them. And so, we have this issue where you’ve got believers with explicit permission and unbelievers casting out demons or at least a report that they’re casting out demons. And in the case of Acts chapter 19, an attempt that goes poorly because they don’t even know who these guys are. So, Christians today are in a situation where I don’t think we’ve identified with either. One of those two groups, we are not disciples of Jesus who have been given explicit permission by Jesus, nor are we unbelievers. And so, I think we need to appreciate those texts and then work harder to figure out what we need to actually do when we encounter the demonic.
Question: So, if we don’t cast out demons, what do we do with this?
Heath Lambert: So, I do think that the Bible is clear in its instructions for what Christians today ought to do. And when you read the Epistles, you’ve got in the Gospels, and you’ve got Acts, you’ve got a little bit more complicated teaching because that is descriptive teaching. That is descriptions of what happened, and that can sometimes be hard for us to know how to understand. Okay, this description of what happened, then how does that translate into what I am to do now? In the Epistles, though, that is didactic teaching. That is, it is instructive, it is giving instructions for what we are to do. And so, the dilemma of how does this translate from the first century to today is somewhat reduced. And in the Epistles, we have instructions on how Christians who are not disciples have received explicit permission, how we are to respond to the demonic. And I’ll just mention a couple of texts if you think about the book of Ephesians in chapter 6. In that chapter on putting on the armor of God, it talks about the demonic in verse 16, which says, “in addition, to all taking up the shield of faith with which you’ll be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.” This is a verse that talks about the attacks of the devil, and it says that we are to combat those attacks of the devil with faith in Jesus Christ.
Another Passage is 1 Peter 5 and, in that passage, which also speaks about the reality of the devil. It says in verses 8 to 9, “be of sober Spirit, be on the alert, your adversary, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour resist him firm in your faith.” So, in both of those passages that talk about the reality of the devil, the weapon Christians like you and me and those listening to the weapon were given to combat the devil is not to cast out the devil but is to trust in Jesus Christ. And in fact, it’s interesting if you think about another passage like Acts 26:18, it talks about Paul being sent to the Gentiles to open their eyes so that they may “turn from darkness to light, and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in me.” So, this is Jesus Christ commissioning, the message of the Apostle Paul, and he says that you are to go and preach that Christians and Gentiles are going to combat their enemies, the darkness of sin, and yes, the devil all in the same way by trusting in Jesus Christ. So, Jesus’ message through Paul to us is that Christians today fight the devil the same way we fight sin, and that is by trusting in Jesus Christ. And as we trust in him, that not only defeats our sin, but it also defeats the devil. If we are concerned that someone we love is possessed by the devil or oppressed by the devil. We should not try to cast out a demon. We should call them to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. And if they would come to know Jesus Christ, the Spirit that would dwell in them would drive out evil forces of darkness, just as he would drive out sin.