Heath Lambert: You know, all of us have been sad. Some of us have spent seasons in our life where we have been really sad and have even received the label or the suspicion that we are depressed. This week on the podcast, we want to talk about how to help the people in our lives who are struggling with this kind of intense sorrow. I’m happy to be joined this week on the podcast by good friends, Dr. Ed Welch of the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation, and Stuart Scott, who is the director of membership for the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. I asked them if we could listen in to a conversation they were having about how to do ministry with our depressed friends, and here is what they said.
Stuart Scott: Yeah, those struggling with depression are all around us, and sometimes they can be our closest friends. How do we recognize depression when we see it in our friends?
Dr. Ed Welch: So, that’s a great question. I think the principle, Stuart, is that we track the person’s emotions. That seems sort of fluffy and first glance, but when you look at the Psalms, that is what is important to the Lord. What are your fears? What are the things that you’re oppressed about? What are your joys? And we want to imitate those things as much as possible and do that with our friends. And so, when they speak of joys, we say, “tell us more.” When they speak of fears, we say, “tell us more.” When they speak of sadness, we want more. So that’s the basic principle.
Let me think of two friends over the past couple of weeks who have spoken about these things. They come from very different angles. One—I can’t remember how it came about—but he mentioned how the mornings are really difficult for him. Well, mornings are difficult for me too, I don’t like to get up in the morning, and I’m tired! But he doesn’t normally say those things, so I said, “what do you mean?” And he said, “I can’t do it; I just can’t do it.” And his wife happened to be close by when we were talking, and all of a sudden, she said, “that’s what he’s saying!” She hears him muttering under his breath in the morning, “I can’t do it. I can’t do it. I can’t do it.” And for both of us, it was this world of despair that this man lives with. It was a passing comment, but we wanted to track those emotions.
The second [friend] was a guy who was just persnickety, he’s just nasty, he’s complaining all the time, and that can drive me nuts probably because I know how to do it myself! But this time it was… So there’s tracking emotions—he’s complaining, something’s bothering him. And I think for a lot of men; all roads tend to be expressed as anger. Saying, “something’s wrong, something’s wrong.” But he couldn’t identify what was wrong. I was just given a little bit of grace and compassion, “what are you talking about? Everything’s wrong? Frankly, I don’t think it’s as wrong as it seems. You know, your wife isn’t wrong. Your job isn’t as wrong. The people at church aren’t as wrong. What’s happening?” And we began to talk about this sort of malaise, this sort of hopelessness that came over him, and it led us to a very, very different place.
Stuart Scott: You know, the most common greeting response is, “Hi, how are you?” “Fine.” I mean, this is everyday conversation when you see people. So we’re not ready when someone responds with an emotion like that. Like, “I’m really angry. I’m very fearful. I can’t do this.” Maybe the person wonders whether they should even engage someone who’s struggling with depression. How do they know whether they should get involved?
Dr. Ed Welch: The principle here is that in Ephesians Chapter 4, we move in with humility and gentleness and patience. Ordinary folks like ourselves they’re the ones who do the majority of ministry. They are trained to do ministry, but it’s the body of Christ that does the ministry. So, the principle is that we don’t have to be smart; we don’t have to be exceptionally gifted or experts in depression. We simply have to be people of compassion. And for those who are going through suffering, it’s very interesting to me when you ask, “what was helpful for you as you went through your hardships?” It doesn’t tend to be the expert who gave the wonderfully apt verse; it was somebody who was simply moved by the other person’s pain and said, “how can I pray for you? This is the way I will pray for you.” And then not only did they pray for them, but they came back a couple of days later and called, “how are you doing? You’ve been on my heart. I’m praying for you.” That persistence is something all of us can do, and it doesn’t take great expertise, yet it’s stunning to those who are going through suffering. They’re not accustomed to such things.
Stuart Scott: So, to get involved like that, how can they initiate involvement? Would you suggest, like you just said, to pray? “How can I pray for you?” Would that be a good way to initiate involvement?
Dr. Ed Welch: That would be the most natural way. What is praying for someone? Something is hard, and we care about that. We are moved by that. It’s a bit hard to understand, and it’s not going to have this immediate solution, which is perfect because if we had an immediate solution, we’d never turn to Christ. But this is the occasion for us to turn to Jesus. So that would certainly be—that initial and persistent plea for help would be the way we begin, and then in the body of Christ, here’s the next natural step.
If we are sort of in that groove of asking for help from the Lord, it becomes more natural for us to bring other people in. So, “could I bring this up with our small group and let them know that you’re struggling?” Perhaps there’s somebody from church, and you know they’ve struggled with a similar thing, and you bring them in as well. There’s this natural unfolding of our care that I think really falls out of simply praying for another person.
Stuart Scott: Is there anything else they might be able to do in ministering God’s Word to them in a very caring and compassionate way after they’ve asked what they can pray for, or there’s some dialogue? Is there something they can minister with? Some passages maybe or a passage that they could read to them to encourage them with the Word of God?
Dr. Ed Welch: I have a couple of reactions to that. One is I’ve just come off of a class that I’ve been teaching—these are really wonderful seminary students—and one of the comments a person in the class had, which took me by surprise, is that we don’t talk about Scripture with our friends. And that makes some sense. We talk about Scripture in these prescribed ministry settings when we are the formal minister, and somebody else is the congregant who hears. And we don’t often talk about Scripture with our friends. So, I’m thinking that’s going to be a bit of a hurdle for us. Again, I’m looking for what would be a very natural, rather than strange and awkward, way, and it would be something like this, “Is there any Scripture that we could pray?” Or this, “are there ways, as you’ve spoken these things to me, that you could speak these things to the Lord?” And the difference between speaking something you’re struggling with to another person and actually speaking to the Lord is categorically different. To speak something to the Lord is a profound expression of faith. To speak something to another human being is not that big a deal. It means the other person’s willing to listen, but it doesn’t demand faith on our part. So, perhaps the small step would be that, let’s follow the Psalms and simply speak these things to the God who hears.
And then from there, to perhaps begin to accumulate words from Scripture, Psalm 88 or Psalm 13, “How long, O LORD.” There are so many places where a depressed person can be surprised that the Lord actually gives some words to be able to speak. And once they find those words, it becomes this way into the story of Scripture where Scripture which once seemed dead to them, now can seem more alive.
Stuart Scott: Yeah. You know, I had a friend when I was going through a discouraging time who first just said, “that’s got to be hard that you’re going through this.” And that was very comforting, just someone identifying. And later, he sent verse cards of certain passages or particular verses, usually from the Psalms.
Dr. Ed Welch: I just want to go out and hug this guy. This is great! I love this.
Stuart Scott: Yeah, and he was praying those for me.
Dr. Ed Welch: That’s beautiful.
Stuart Scott: It was very helpful because, you know, the Scripture says that it’s through the Word that there’s comfort and there’s hope. And so, we have the prayer going up to God and then hearing from Him through His Word. Is there anything else that you’d like to maybe just wrap up with the topic here on ministering to those around us who may be struggling with this depression?
Dr. Ed Welch: I think only this, that the few things we’re talking about they’re in the public domain. If we love another person, we’re able to do these things. I suspect what we could miss is how powerful they can be where the Spirit uses ordinary weak people to do really very powerful things in the lives of other people and we’re talking about things that a regular old, weak person would be able to do. Yeah, thank you, it’s been good to talk about this.
