Dale Johnson: I’m delighted to have with me Terry Enns on the podcast today. He has been married to Raye Jeanne for 37 years now. They have two adult children, Elizabeth and Emily. He’s the pastor at Grace Bible Church in Granbury, Texas, where it’s his joy to work with a very well-known ACBC member Keith Palmer. He’s enjoyed working together with Keith for 22 years, and he’s been at the church there for 34 years. He also gets to work with a grace-filled and godly team of four other elders, serving a remarkably loving and gracious church there in Granbury. In his spare time, he enjoys his time with Raye Jeanne, whether that be breakfast dates or just time together. He enjoys reading and also following the Texas Rangers.
Terry Enns: Our year last year, we’re going to hold that.
Dale Johnson: You’re going to hold that. That’s right. You know, they’ve been up and down. I used to live here in Fort Worth, we followed them. And now we’re following the Royals. And so, they’re actually having a good year, they’re doing well for a small-market team. It’s fun stuff. So, we enjoy some of the same interests. Terry, welcome to the podcast, brother. So glad you could be with us.
Terry Enns: Thank you, Dale. It’s good to be with you.
Dale Johnson: Now we’re going to talk about how Jesus as the Good Shepherd. And I’m really looking forward to this because as we think about counseling, as we think about ministry of the Word, personal ministry of the Word, that’s what we are trying to accomplish is the work of Christ, in the way of Christ, in how we think about it. You know, in our recent conference, you gave a breakout on this topic, Jesus the Good Shepherd. I want you to sort of give an overview of that breakout and what you were trying to accomplish. And it’ll give us a sense of sort of where we’re going, and how we want to tackle this today.
Terry Enns: Yeah, I’m trying to think about when counselees are coming to us, you know, they’re coming to us with a variety of issues. Some of them are monumental, just life-changing kinds of issues, and others are smaller kinds of issues. Maybe they’re just wrestling with the a decision and what kind of decision will honor the Lord, that kind of thing, and in all of those situations we’re wanting to point them to Christ. What’s a Christ-filled response going to be like? And what will demonstrate love of Christ and care of Christ, and that kind of thing. And so, in that session, I’m trying to think about: What does Christ look like? And you think about John’s gospel particularly, which is where I was focused, and all the different ways the Christ is pictured in that gospel. You see Christ is a Healer. Christ is a Teacher. He is the Water of life, the Bread of life, the True Vine, the Way, the Truth, the Resurrection, and the Life. But another image that dominates this picture is the picture of Shepherd—which He calls himself in John 10, The Good Shepherd. That title is talking about His character, His work, His personhood. And it’s that Shepherd care, that Shepherd love, that Shepherd intimacy, the one who knows His sheep well. That is where we want to take our counselee to and lead them to when they’re struggling and when they’re lost. When they just need some help. “What do I do in this situation?” And we want to take them to the One who will care for them and sustain them.
Dale Johnson: Now, this image of Jesus being the Good Shepherd, this is certainly one that’s been built throughout the whole of the Old Testament. God has described himself in that way. In Ezekiel 34, He describes that He will send His Shepherd to care for His people. So, this is a metaphor that’s been building for quite some time, and then bam, in John 10, Jesus says, “I am the Good Shepherd” being recognized this, as the one that God was foretelling about. And sometimes we think about Shepherds in a, very interesting way we might miss the metaphor that’s being described. And so I want you to talk a little bit about how the Bible portrays Shepherds and how that really informs. The way in which we care because a lot of times you might hear, preachers described. It Shepherds were among some of the most despised in the culture, you know, are those types of things really true. They were looked down upon and disparage and that sort of thing. So give us a sense of how the Bible portrays Shepherds.
Terry Enns: Yeah, Dale. I’ve actually had to, I think go back and rework some of my old sermons if we could edit them because I’ve carried that picture. I’ve communicated that picture and thinking through this issue about Jesus, as the Good Shepherd, has really been helpful for me, because there is that caricature that the Shepherds were despised and looked down on. And I think to a degree, I think we can say, yes, they weren’t at the top of the socio-economic ladder, they weren’t revered for what they did, but a lot of the struggle that people had with Shepherds was not because of the position, but just the nature of what they did. So, their shepherds and sheep need 24-hour, seven-day-a-week care. And so, shepherds were just immersed in this. So, by the fact of their job and what they did, they were removed culturally. They were moved relationally. They struggled with relationships. And let’s just be honest, I’m trying to find a tactful way to say this, but at certain seasons of the year especially, there were odorous things that happened with sheep. And they carried that with them. They lived with the sheep. They were with the sheep. And so, they were disconnected and they had that sense about them there. They’re unclean and certainly would have been ceremonially unclean much of the time, if not all the time. And so, I think they were not regarded well in the culture, yet I think it goes way too far to say that they were disparaged. And you think about the Bible—and you’ve already alluded to it—the Bible speaks highly about shepherds. So, if you do a funeral for an unbeliever and you say, “I want to read some Scripture, are there any Scriptures you like,” you will always hear 99.9% of the time Psalm 23. It’s “the Good Shepherd,” right? And “the Lord is our Shepherd.” And they want that, and God has portrayed himself there as the Shepherd. That shepherd imagery was also used of kings of Israel. So, we find in Psalm 78 that David is referred to as the king of Israel, and how he was commanded to shepherd the sheep. We find that shepherd imagery about God, not just in Psalm 23, but we find it also in Psalm 28:9, “Save your people and bless your inheritance, be their Shepherd also, and carry them forever.” We find it in Psalm 80:1, “give ear, Shepherd of Israel, you who lead Joseph like a flock, you who are throned above the cherubim, shine forth.” And what’s interesting with that one is that we find a similar thing in Psalm 95. He takes that Shepherd imagery of someone who is low and not prominent culturally, and He pairs that with the Kingship of God. So now you’ve got the Shepherd who is humble in His care of people, combined with the power and authority of the king. Not just the king David, but the King of the heavens. And you find that consistently throughout the Old Testament. You also have the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah, who will Shepherd. Like in Isaiah 40, “Like a Shepherd, He will tend his flock in His arm, He will gather the Lambs and He will carry them in His bosom, and He will gently lead the nursing young.” So you find that humble care, gentle care, that sovereign care, and that wise care. And we find it as well, in Jesus, of course. “Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a Shepherd (Matthew 9:36). So, He looks at them and He says, “these people need a shepherd, and they don’t have one.” And He’s compassionate towards them and longs to lead them and care well for them. And Shepherd, obviously, becomes not just what pastors do, it becomes our title. That word “pastor” is a word that means shepherd. It’s ingrained to what we do in caring for people within the church. And then, of course, Jesus not only calls Himself the Good Shepherd, Peter calls Him “the Shepherd and guardian of our faith.” Hebrews calls Him, “the Great Shepherd.” So, it just permeates the Scriptures. And so, something that has been disparaged is actually something that’s held high by the Scripture. So, I think we need to do a little bit of rethinking when we think that shepherd analogy.
Dale Johnson: Yeah. They’re looked at as an integral part of society, right? So, if we were to think today even about sort of old timey stockbrokers—they’re managing a lot of what are considered crucial resources, and the supply chain that really supported a lot of what was going on with a group of people. And so, it’s good that we would think about the integral nature of the work that they did. One of the best ways, Terry, I think as you set up even describing how the form of Shepherd is utilizing the Scripture to talk about Kings and their role. They’re very influential and the Bible is describing them in a position of influence. And one of the best ways I think we can define something as we get a clearer picture of what a shepherd is also helps us to see what it’s not. And we see in the Old Testament what it’s not, by maintaining that influence. But that influence can either be something that blesses those under them, or it really harms those under them. So, talk a little bit about the Old Testament in its description of false shepherds and the warning about false shepherds—You know, some of the characteristics that we see with those false shepherds in their unworthiness, in the ways in which they care, because it doesn’t remove their position, right? It doesn’t remove their influence, but whether or not they take that seriously and honor the Lord with that role, it can have a massive impact for good or devastation on those under their care. So, just talk about some of those characteristics.
Terry Enns: Yeah, and part of the irony is, you know, Scripture holds such a high view of the shepherd role, and yet much of the Old Testament, if not most of the Old Testament references to shepherds are denunciations of those who were misusing that shepherd role. So, you find that their uncaring about the flock that has been given to them as a stewardship. And I think that stewardship principle is helpful to remember that this has been something that the Lord has entrusted to them—this care of souls. So, we find that in Jeremiah 10:21, the shepherd’s have become stupid. Mom always said, “never use the word stupid,” but there it is in the Scriptures.
Dale Johnson: This would be an appropriate use, right there.
Terry Enns: This is an appropriate use, they become stupid. They’ve not sought the Lord. Their folly is in that they have not sought the Lord. They have not prospered, and as a result the flock is scattered. And that’s really what the prophet is pointing to—the scattering, the the lack of care of the flock. In Zechariah Chapter 10, “the teraphim speak iniquity and diviners see lying visions and tell false dreams. They comfort in vain. Therefore, the people wander like sheep. They are afflicted because there’s no shepherd.” So actually, there was a shepherd. There was someone to care, it’s just that they abrogated their responsibilities in such a way that they were afflicted. Another picture we have is of shepherds who are greedy and self-absorbed. So they’re entrusted to care. They’ve got that stewardship, but instead of caring for others, they take what is given for others and use it for themselves. In Isaiah 56:11, “But they are shepherds who have no understanding; they have all turned to their own way, each to his unjust gain, one and all.” In Ezekiel 34, “‘As I live,’ declares the Lord God, ‘Surely because my flock has become a prey. My flock has even become food, for all the beasts of the field, for lack of a shepherd, my shepherds did not search for my flock, but rather the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed my flock.'”
And I think that’s just such sobering as a pastor and as biblical counselors. Every person that walks into my office for an appointment, they’re given to me as a trust from the Lord, and I must see them as that, as one who has been entrusted to me to care as the Lord would care for them, and not to use them to my own selfish advantages or to mislead them, which is another picture, right? They lead the flock astray. They take them to pastures that aren’t safe. Ezekiel 34 says again, “They were scattered for lack of a Shepherd. They became prey food for every beast of the field. They were scattered.” We find these men are also foolish and ungodly. We saw that in Jeremiah 10, they’re under the curse and condemnation of God. He is opposed to them, and we just find that all over Jeremiah, multiple places like Ezekiel and Zechariah all talk about those things. Even in the New Testament, right before Jesus calls Himself, “the Good Shepherd” in chapter 9, He refers to the pharisees as blind guides and they understood the illusion. When he gets to chapter 10, and He identifies false shepherds or anti-shepherds as thieves and robbers and strangers and wolves, there was no question in the pharisees minds. “He’s talking about us.” But I think those are all good pictures of what a bad shepherd does. And it’s also, you know, the antithesis: It shows that’s what a shepherd should be doing. So, I think you take all those things together and you have: Shepherds are false, when they do not protect, they do harm, they lead astray, they destroy, and they use what’s been granted to them for selfish purposes. And we find a lot of “care” that’s given to people, both outside the church and even within the church, that is characterized in that way, right? So, people are led astray from the truth. They’re not pointed to the book as the solution and answer. They may be given ideas for well, “these are six helpful tips that you can do to not do what you’ve been doing.” But they’re not dealing with the issue of the heart. They’re not led to the Savior who will change and transform their hearts. They’re not using the text in a biblical way. So, right there they may open the Bible, but they’re not talking in biblical ways and are not explaining text accurately. So, those are just some of the things that I’ve seen about how false shepherds function in the Scriptures.
Dale Johnson: I think this is a critical point because from my perspective—when you think about what’s entrusted with the care of souls to shepherds. And I would even take that a little bit further to think about all the people in the church to do the work of the ministry. That means we’re following Christ. We’re wanting to shepherd others and care for one another where the Christ cares for us. When we miss that stewardship, or when we misuse that stewardship, it has legitimate effects on the people who we’re trying to care for. They’re very vulnerable. And us understanding the false nature of shepherding and seeing the effects that the Old Testament talks about—and what Jesus describes in the New Testament—we need to be aware of that. It’s an opportunity where we have to either bless a person or it can bring great harm to a person. And we contrast that with Jesus in the New Testament, right? So, in the Old Testament, we see lots of pictures very specifically. In Ezekiel, this contrast between false shepherds and the effects of that, and God saying He’s bringing a Good Shepherd. Jesus describes that in John 10:10. One of the “I am statements” in John—sort of the outline if you will of that book of John, where John’s purpose is to declare who Christ is and reveal His identity. Very specifically describe a little bit about that particular “I am” statement—Where Jesus says, “I am the Good Shepherd” and it’s attempt to reveal His very nature. So, describe the way that John helps us to see that shepherding care in this book.
Terry Enns: I think there’s a couple ways to look at it. One, I want to look at it in the context of that particular passage. So, in that passage Jesus is setting himself up as the True Shepherd. So, in contrast to those who are false shepherds—He’s not a blind guide, but He is a True Shepherd and He also pictures Himself as the Sacrificial Shepherd. So, He’s the Shepherd who dies. Now, other shepherds also died, but no shepherd willingly walked into the sheep pen and said, “I’m going to give my life today.” And with every other shepherd, when they died, the sheep also died, were taken captive, or were sold for other purposes. But that’s not what happens when the Good Shepherd dies: He saves His sheep. Instead of them dying, His death produces their life. And that’s one of the major points of that particular passage. So, after looking at the passage, then what I did is I just kind of telescoped out. I thought, “Well, am I going to see the shepherding care of Christ anywhere else in John?” And just go through the book chapter by chapter, and think about: What is the characteristic of what a good shepherd does? What’s a Shepherd entrusted to do, right? He cares for people and so on.
So, we don’t have time to go through the whole list. But as the shepherd, He invites Andrew and Peter, and Philip and others to follow Him. That’s chapter one: He compassionately cares for wedding guests. It’s when they run out of wine and at the same time He corrects his mother, right? “It’s not the time for me to be revealed yet,” but He turns the water into wine, provides for the people and He also is compassionate to His mother at the same time. He gently corrects Nicodemus and tells him how to be born again and regenerated. That’s the Shepherd leading him to the truth. He intentionally goes through Samaria to meet with the adulterous woman there and gives her and the village of Samaria the Gospel. She’s in sin, but you just feel that tenderness of His confrontation with her and His leading her to the truth. So, “this is the wrong pathway to go and here’s the right pathway to go.” And then in her excitement, she brings a whole village to Him. And the whole village goes on a new pathway, right? He’s compassionate towards the hungry crowd of 5,000. He feeds them from five loaves and two fish. And we think it’s all about the miracle. Yes, it’s also about the revelation of Jesus and it’s the revelation of Jesus as the Messiah. He forgives the woman who’s caught in adultery. In Chapter 8, He heals and then forgives the man that’s born blind. And this morning, I was thinking, just kind of reflecting on this, and thinking about John 13-17—The Upper Room Discourse and all the ways He shepherds His disciples as He prepares to go to go to the cross. And we just find this theme of compassion, gentleness, correction, pointing people, even having hard conversations with people. I think about, you know, one of our tasks, as I think Paul delineates in 1 Thessalonians 5:14, “We urge you brothers, admonish the unruly, encourage the faint-hearted, help the weak, and be patient with everyone. I think that is shepherding kind of language, right? What kind of sheep do I have? Is the sheep unruly? Is the Sheep faint-hearted? Is the Sheep weak? Does a sheep just need patience? It’s just the sanctification process takes a long time. And as you go through John, you will see Jesus doing that with all the people He’s interacting with. Even the pharisees, when He’s confronting them, right? They’re unruly and as a shepherd, He’s taking that “unruly sheep” and trying to drive them to the truth, by correcting them and admonishing them. And it’s just a beautiful picture of “This is what my ministry as a biblical counselor ought to be looking like.” I need to come intentionally thinking: What kind of compassion does that person need?
Dale Johnson: Terry, one of the things that I enjoy doing in my teaching is I describe to my students that the way in which you become a tender-hearted, compassionate counselor is the Word has to have its effect on you. And what I’m trying to describe to them is: you must be one who is shepherded deeply by Christ. And as I think about that, I’ve been so encouraged even in my own walk with the Lord. And I think that changes me as a person, when I get in front of somebody and I’m pointing them to Christ as the Good Shepherd. Talk about some of the ways that you are encouraged and that increases your role as a counselor, when you think about the shepherding work of Christ Himself in your own life.
Terry Enns: I think one of the ways that we start is by something that we say regularly. I first heard Jerry Bridges say it: “Preach the gospel to yourself every day.” Listen, we’re all going to fall short. We’re shepherds, but we’re not the Great Shepherd. We are flawed shepherds and we are going to sin—Dare I say, we will in every day. Certainly, in motive and desire and things can derail us, discourage us, make us despondent. No, go to the great Shepherd and let him wash you, John 13, He forgives the sins of all of His disciples. He washes their feet as a reflection of His forgiveness of them. So, when you fall short, just keep appealing to the Christ for the Forgiveness He provides, and then rest in that. Don’t say, “Well, I’m still guilty.” Know the guilt has been removed, it’s been washed away. And that has been so very helpful for me, as well. I want to come to know the freedom that comes from genuine repentance. And He even talks about that in John chapter 8, right? “The truth will set you free.” I think one of the things I asked myself all the time is: “Is my life worth imitating? Is my life pointing to the Good Shepherd? When I’m facing decisions and temptations, one of the things I regularly do is I picture my family. If my wife sees this, if my adult children see this, if the people I have counseled see the way I’m responding in this moment—talking to the checker at the grocery store, or you know, building the fence in my backyard or whatever the situation is—Will they be encouraged to walk like Christ? That’s really helpful. I think, frankly, as I’ve looked at guys that have failed, that’s one of the reasons that they have failed. They haven’t considered those kinds of things. One of the things that I have found particularly helpful, Dale, is over the last number of years the Lord has been so gracious in my life to point out areas where I am struggling—where I didn’t always think that I had struggles, where I didn’t think that my heart was not tuned rightly to Him, and He’s exposed those. Sometimes in simple ways, you can say, “Oh, I’m not an anxious person.” Now, have a 16-year-old get a driver’s license, and then have her have four accidents in the first year that she’s driving, and see whether or not you have an anxious heart or not. And then send her off to school in that context.
And I’d say that was a simple one and then there have been many others as well. And there were many, many nights where I would wake up at 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. and things that were provoking me towards anxiousness were rolling through my mind, and the Lord was gracious in that He led me to the compassion of Christ. And I thought often about, I think it was Cotton Mather, who said, “I like to go to bed with a little bit of Calvin on my tongue.” So, he would read from The Institute’s as he was falling asleep. I didn’t do that, but I did some similar things, like as I was going to bed the last thing, I would look at was the Scriptures on my phone. I have a Bible app on my phone, and I would go to the Psalms, typically the psalm that I had read that Sunday morning; I read the Psalms every Sunday, and I’d pick one of those psalms and just grab one verse for meditation to put me to sleep. And then, as I would wake up in the middle of the night, very often, that verse would be on my mind. It was 2 a.m. I might not have remembered it well—so, I just opened my phone back up my phone that is still there on that verse, and I would meditate on that. And then, I found other resources as well that I would read through—books like the Valley of Vision and other books that would lead me into a high view of God. So, I would focus my attention on Him and run to Him as my source of help, and not to my problem. I would meditate on Him and not meditate on my problem. And that was exceedingly helpful.
Dale Johnson: Now, so good. And I want two things that I would say is when you’ve been ministered to in that way by Christ, the way that you walk into the counseling room and the confidence that you have in Christ and His word—that if it can settle your soul in that way, it can settle to the soul of the person sitting in front of you. And I want you to talk a little bit about some of the resources—you’ve mentioned a couple, but resources that are helpful in you thinking about Jesus as Shepherd.
Terry Enns: Yeah, one that I found that was particularly helpful was Thomas Goodwin’s The Heart of Christ. I read that many years ago just devotionally, I would read a little bit in that book. Before I’d even read my Bible, I was kind of reading the Puritans to set the table for reading my Bible in the morning. And from that book, Dane Ortlund wrote Gentle and Lowly, and I found much that was helpful in that. Michael Reaves’ Rejoicing in Christ has been just a tremendous blessing in my life, it’s just such a helpful book. Similarly, Bruce Ware’s The Man Christ Jesus. A book you may be well familiar with—your Senior Pastor, Rick Holland’s Uneclipsing The Son. It is a really good picture about the person of Jesus Christ. John Owen’s The glory of Christ. I’m just starting to read that. I’m starting to preach through the Gospel of Luke and so I want to make while my way through that. Thomas Watson has a good sermon on the Good Shepherd. That’s a short document; It’s about a dozen pages. The Valley of Vision I’ve mentioned. There are so many really good books now on Puritan works, Puritan prayers, reformed prayers, and meditations. So, Robert L. Moore has several books, Fount of Heaven: Prayers of the Early Church, Piercing Heaven: Prayers of the Puritans. And then most recently, I think Race from Heaven: Prayers of the Reformation. Tim Chester has Into His Presence: Praying with the Puritans. I buy all those books on my Kindle, so that it when I wake up at night and I’m struggling, where I just want something Saturday night, preparing for Sunday morning, to meditate on, as I’m falling asleep. I’ll open that up on my Kindle. I read a few pages, and just let that let that settle me into a deep and abiding love of my Shepherd as I’m going to sleep.
Dale Johnson: That’s so helpful, brother. Thank you for leading us through meditation on our Great and Wonderful Shepherd, the Lord Jesus.
Terry Enns: Thank you, Dale. It’s been a joy.
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