Dale Johnson: This week on the podcast, I have with me Manuel Herrera. He is an ACBC certified counselor. And he’s a part of the Spanish biblical counseling ministry at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. He also graduated from medical school in Mexico and, man, he’s becoming a fast friend of mine. We’ve enjoyed some time together teaching in Argentina. It was a wonderful time together. And I’m really looking forward to our time today talking about this issue of physical pain. And this is a part that I think sometimes we might assume the Bible doesn’t speak directly to or about. We have a tendency to separate spiritual things from physical things. But it’s interesting to see what the Bible says about these things. And so, we’re going to talk to a physician, one who has been trained medically to help us sort of think through this and who has also been trained in theological education. So, those two worlds converge, and I think Manuel can help us here. So, maybe let’s start with this question: How does the human body produce or how do we feel pain?
Manuel Herrera: Well, this is a very good question, and I would like to start saying that pain is a protective mechanism. We experience some kind of pain all the time in our lives. If we sit for a long time in a certain position, the pressure can cause some tissue destruction of the skin. It’s obstructing their normal blood flow, so that uncomfortable or painful sensation forces us to change position. And the way in which God designed our body in relation to pain is very interesting and certainly exalts His creator character. The body can perceive a sensation that we call fast pain as when a needle is stuck in the skin, when one cuts oneself with a knife or when one suffers an intense burn. It can also perceive long pain that has the capacity to cause almost unbearable and prolonged suffering because it can be felt even in the deepest tissues of the organism. For example, a muscle spasm or pain caused by ischemia, like a heart attack. So, all these different types of pain are transmitted by receptors, which are nothing more than free nerve endings. That in fractions of seconds, that sign that something is wrong with the tissue to my central nervous system is sent. So, for example the nerve fibers that transmit a rapid pain travel from the peripheral nerves to the spinal cord at a speed of up to 30 meters per second. Isn’t it wonderful? I mean, this is very interesting. God designed our body with several mechanisms and one of them is pain. So sometimes knowing details like this leads us to praise God for creating a machine as complex as a human body is.
Dale Johnson: Yeah, I like the way that you phrase that, describing God as Creator and the reason that these types of mechanisms are in our body. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking of when I was a child 5 years old. I can remember my mom telling me over and over again on a Sunday morning. She would stand out in one of our main rooms and she would have the ironing board out with the iron, and I don’t know why I was so intrigued. Maybe the water that was coming out and steam or something, I have no idea. But she would tell me don’t touch the iron and for some reason that was almost like, you know, I needed to go explore and find out what was going on. I think about when I touch my hand to the iron, how grateful I am that
I felt pain. It wasn’t immediate, but it was pretty quick, and it probably saved my hand from getting really torn up and burned bad. I snatched it back. And let’s just say I’ve never done that again. There was a mechanism immediately where you know, I had a reflex to snatch my hand back. Now, as we think about physical pain, we’ve all had moments sort of like that where something happened, and we found ourselves reflexing in a particular way. Describe a little bit of how physical pain can affect us as believers. Particularly think about in terms of how it can sometimes not alter our faith, but it certainly challenges our faith or our relationship with God. Maybe it alters or challenges what we think is true in a given moment when we’re experiencing something that’s in the physical realm, like pain.
Manuel Herrera: Yeah, first I would like to mention that today we live in an anti-pain culture. More and more efforts are being made to make people pain-free. In medicine there is this medical specialty or subspecialty called Algology, from the Greek word algos, which means pain. This medical specialty focuses on just that, offering treatments that accompany the patient to mitigate pain or eradicate the pain. This is all good and it is definitely a blessing to see how God provides opportunities like this regarding pain. However, something very interesting happens and it is that this anti-pain culture also fits man’s victimism. So many allow themselves to be dominated by physical pain. Others take refuge in physical pain to make themselves victims of their responsibilities before God. For many physical pain can even become an idol in the heart. It can come to occupy an important place in life, where everything around it revolves around trying to eliminate it. So, for some Christians, physical pain can become the main aspect of defining their life. This causes a decrease in the motivation to keep a close relationship with God. So, we need to consider that important so many believers suffering from chronic physical pain, who may become discouraged and disinterested in prayer, and the study of the Word, gathering with other believers, serving other believers, etcetera. So, I don’t want to be insensitive above all this. On the contrary I want to help our brothers and sisters who listen to this episode to think biblically about physical pain. We need to understand that God is Sovereign in our pain. He uses the pain in our body or His glory and to continue conforming us into the character of Christ. So, physical pain is a good example of the suffering of this life.
Dale Johnson: And in it, it doesn’t limit our ability in the inner man to grow; 2 Corinthians 4 makes that part very clear. I’m thinking in terms of practical advice. You know, somebody’s going through a difficult time, maybe they are feeling lots of pain—it could be cancer treatment, maybe their hip is not doing well, so any position that they find themselves in, or any type of chronic pain. Those things do become dominant in your mind and it’s hard to get those things out of your mind. They seem to dominate your day. Talk about some practical advice, Manny, that you can offer someone who is trying to help a friend, or family member with physical pain. Try to talk about it in a way that, maybe that’s me where I’m trying to comfort a family friend. How can I be effective in being compassionate, showing support for them when they’re going through this pain, When I, that moment, am not feeling that same type of pain. How do I do that?
Manuel Herrera: Yeah, this is a very useful question. I definitely think it applies to our counselees as well. So, let me mention some aspects. First of all, this is an opportunity to listen compassionately. Counselors need to be compassionate and patient listeners. Allow your counselee, friend, or family member to express their feelings concerning and struggling with this pain. This is also an opportunity to be sensitive and understand what they are dealing with. We need to recognize that everyone responds to physical pain differently and we need to be wise and be sensitive to their emotional and physical needs at every stage of the process. Avoid simplistic judgments or advice, and instead offer your support with humility and understanding. Romans 12:15 exerts us to “mourn with those who mourn.” So, this is an opportunity that we have to answer in this particular way. Of course, we need to offer emotional support in terms of love. I would say this is an opportunity that the Lord gives us to love our brother or sister who is going through pain. Remember that loving is a particular quality of the believer according to 1 John 4. Express your love and support in tangible and practical ways. You can send notes of encouragement, a text, call, make regular visits, or simply be available to spend time together whenever possible. Along with that, offer practical help. Offer your assistance in practical tasks such as preparing meals or running errands or taking care of other household responsibilities that may be difficult because of physical pain. It’s a way to love our brothers and sisters.
Galatians, 6:1 exhorts us to bear one another’s burdens. So, this is an opportunity for this. Of course, we need to pray for them. This is very important; It’s an opportunity that God gives us to pray for them, interceding in prayer for our friends or our counselees, it is a blessing. And we need to see that as a blessing. Some other aspects: We need to encourage with Scripture, sharing biblical passages that can strengthen our counselees faith in the midst of suffering. Lean into the Psalms: Psalm 23, Psalm 46, Psalm 55. Remind them of God’s promises and His faithfulness at all times, 1 Corinthians 10:13. Also maintain your normal lifestyle as possible with them. Sometimes we think that physical pain dominates everything in our lives and yet God expects us to respond responsibly in the midst of suffering. We see that in the Scripture; Scripture makes no exceptions to our obedience to Him. We should encourage them not to let physical pain dominate all their interactions, but remind them that the believer is not defined by sickness or pain but by Christ—which is a blessing. This is an opportunity to encourage participation in the local church, as well. Sometimes fellowship with other believers can be a source of comfort and spiritual strength during difficult times in pain, and it even helps to avoid spending all one’s time thinking about oneself. Instead, they can occupy the mind with thinking about ministering to one another. So, this is an important opportunity to encourage them in that particular way. Also, I would say, we can remind them that suffering is not permanent, and that God can use even the most difficult trials for they’re good and His glory. So, this is an opportunity to give hope and encouragement. Romans 15:4-13, remind us that we have the God of hope and His Word of hope. So, hope is not in mitigating the pain with pain killers or various treatments that may work. Hope is placed in our God of hope, an eternal hope, which surpasses any kind of pain. As we see in Romans 8:18, this shows the same reality in where our hope is as believers; This passage is very encouraging. Imagine that your counselee will struggle with physical pain for the rest of his life—neither you nor he would know that, right? But how firmly the Word of hope reminds us of that coming glory, where there will be no more pain? That’s wonderful. That’s a real hope. So, this is also a good reminder to us that biblical counseling doesn’t seek to help the believer solve his or her problems, but to be God’s man or woman in the midst of that problem, resting in the God of hope.
Dale Johnson: Now, I want to highlight a couple things you said, because I want to go back to some of the focus that you mention on an eternal perspective, that we can encourage this person. It seems like they’re in the middle of this and it will be forever. But I want to talk about that. I want to highlight some of the things you said that I think were really good, like when you talked about prayer. Sometimes we dismiss prayer as if that’s not a way we can contribute to help; it’s dismissed quite frequently. And I know for me, when I hear people praying for me or they remember sometime in the middle of next week that they said they were going to pray for me and they text me saying, “hey man, I’ve been praying for you.” That’s just such an encouragement, that’s huge. I think it’s some of the other things that you mentioned. You mentioned some very practical things relative to being patient with them. The Scripture tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:14, to be patient with all. We should be patient because we don’t know in this moment what they’re feeling and how deeply that is, but just for us to pay attention. You mentioned just some very basic things: run errands for them, help clean their house, right? Do this, do that. Those are things that while they’re lying on the couch in pain, part of the thing that increases the perspective on that pain is they’re thinking about the things that they could be or should be doing, that need to be done. If we can come and help them with some of those things, it helps to alleviate some of that problem and it shows them that, “listen we know where you are and that you’re hurting.” We’re identifying with what they’re feeling. I think those are excellent ways of thinking about it. Maybe one of the most difficult things is what you mentioned at the end, to give them an eternal perspective because it’s hard. They’re living in the moment and what’s dominating the moment is pain. It hinders them seeing in the future. So, talk a little bit about how the believer can maintain this eternal, God centered perspective, while in the middle of pain. And this is probably one of the most difficult things that we can do, having that God centered perspective, and then what spiritual practices, really, help us in the process.
Manuel Herrera: Yeah, let me mention some of them. I would like to start by saying that we need to focus on worship and praise. Through worship and praise the believer can lift his or her eyes to God and find comfort in his presence and sovereignty. So, Psalm 119:7 says, “I will praise You with uprightness of heart when I learned Your righteous judgement”, so we definitely have this opportunity to praise God, to worship His name even when we deal with some physical situations like pain. So, this will help us to have a God centered perspective. Also, the meditation of God’s Word. I think the believer can find comfort and hope by meditating on God’s eternal promises, which are our reminder of His love and faithfulness and the power over all things like pain. Also, we mentioned prayer; the believer can bring his burdens and concerns to the Lord trusting in His power and sovereignty to bring comfort and healing in the midst of physical pain. I would also like to mention the fellowship with the church. Now, seeking the fellowship and support of other believers can strengthen the believer’s faith and remind him or her that he or she is not alone in suffering.
Dale Johnson: Manny right now you and I are sitting in Southern California. The weather is okay outside, you and I seem to be dealing with life okay. We’re not in any physical pain. It’s easy for us to talk about theoretically here. I mentioned a moment ago, part of the difficulty of physical pain is, it hinders some of the things that we can see because it’s so dominant in the immediate moment. I’ve laid flat on my back for five days when I hurt my back, and I’ve done this a couple of times. I literally could not physically walk. So, feeling some of that, that’s where my mind goes when I hear somebody who’s in chronic pain, struggling with chronic illness to some degree. And sometimes I asked you earlier about how this affects the believer’s faith. One of the ways it does that is it causes us in some way to question God. Is He really good? I thought if I followed Him, I thought if I was devoted to Him that these kinds of bad things wouldn’t happen. We start to question the character of God. So, talk about the aspects of God’s character that might be especially meaningful for us to remind believers of when they’re dealing with physical pain.
Manuel Herrera: Yeah, thank you for asking that because as I said a moment ago, we tend to focus on ourselves when we feel physical pain. We have a great God; we need to be focused on Him. We need to think on God as a healer, the reality is that believers facing physical pain, they can find comfort in the fact that God is a God who heals and restores. We see that in Psalm 147:3 and Isaiah 53 as well. We also need to think of God as a comforter. We can rely on God’s comfort in the midst of the physical pain, knowing that He is close to those who suffer and gives them strength and comfort. Also, we can think of God as the sustainer in times of weakness and physical pain. We as believers can trust God to sustain them and give them the strength they need to persevere. We see that 2 Corinthians 12, “my grace is sufficient for you for my power is made perfect in weakness”. So, that’s a blessing to think about situations like physical pain. We can see God has a companion in suffering. He is with us, He understands our pain and suffering, He Himself experienced human suffering through Jesus Christ. Whatever reality we have in His testimony, in Jesus Christ’s life. We also need to see God as a source of hope and future. As we mentioned, before we have this eternal hope in Jesus Christ. And I definitely think in 2 Corinthians 4:18 for “we’re not anxious about the things which are seen but about the things which are not seen, for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.” When we think of God’s character, we’re dealing with physical pain. I think we are not only thinking of God, but we are also thinking of His glory through this physical pain situation we’re dealing with.
Dale Johnson: Manny, this has been really helpful. One of the things that I pray happens for our counselors is: as you’re dealing with somebody who’s struggling with some sort of physical pain that you’ll remember some of the principles that we’ve talked about, in terms of the challenges that those who struggle with physical pain might find himself up against. And that you’d be reminded of how you can engage them relative to the promises of God, the character of God, how you can practically serve them in so many ways. So many pieces of helpful advice, Manny, that you’ve given. But also maybe in a personal way, all right, the Bible makes very clear that we’re all in the process of dying. And a part of that means that we’re going to suffer pain. We’re going to suffer difficulty, and things will not be easy for us. Even as I think about our own death, I think about Adoniram Judson; One of the things that he described about his life and his immense suffering was he used the phrase “how few there are who died so hard” and death is something that is difficult and as we move toward the shadows of death, pain being some of that, we’re going to experience difficulty. We need to remember some of the truths that we talked about today. Brother, thanks for leading us in this, bringing our hearts and minds back to the character of God. Thank you, brother.
Manuel Herrera: Thank you.
