Dale Johnson: This year for our Christmas Traditions, I’m so delighted to have with us a couple that really needs no introduction at ACBC. They serve us every single year at our conferences, speaking and teaching. They travel all around the world teaching biblical counseling, doing biblical counseling there in Charlotte at RTS. We are so grateful for Dr. Jim and Caroline Newheiser. I’m really looking forward to our time together today, as we think about Christmas traditions. And it is interesting as I’ve done this over the years to just hear how differently people within our faith tradition celebrate Christmas and celebrate this time of year. Guys, welcome to the podcast. I’m really looking forward to kind of getting some insight into your lives, getting to know you a little bit better, and thinking about the Christmas time of year. So, welcome to the podcast.
Caroline Newheiser: Thank you.
Dale Johnson: One of my favorite questions to ask is just about your favorite Christmas memories. I think that’s a good place to start because it is this time of year when the weather, at least where I live now, it starts to get cooler. You start to see changing of leaves, you start to have certain memories from maybe childhood or different times in your life. Talk about what are some of those memories that come up in your mind as you think about Christmas.
Jim Newheiser: One thing about us that may be unusual is that we almost had no Christmas memories. When I was in college. I read a tract about how Christmas is like Saturnalia and the Roman Pagan festivals. And so, I made it in my mind when I get married, we were not going to do Christmas and Caroline loves Christmas. I can’t believe she married me under those conditions. But in 1979, as we moved through the month of December, there were no trees, Santa, nothing in the house. And I remember, I’m driving back from work–and Caroline was so sweet about it–I’m driving back from work in mid-December and I stopped at a Christmas tree farm and bought the Christmas tree and bring it home, which was capitulating in. I wasn’t sure whether I was compromising my principles or being a decent husband. At the time, I thought the former, and now I believe the ladder. That would be how Christmas was launched from our family. And then Caroline, you have maybe more.
Caroline Newheiser: Well, I grew up with my dad especially always made a big deal about bringing in a live tree, celebrating, putting it in a prominent place in the house, and everyone decorating together. So yeah, we had this experience so, definitely toned down. But after a year and a half of marriage, we moved to the Middle East where you are not allowed to celebrate Christmas. There was no music playing in the stores. There are no displays at in the stores. There are no decorations or Christmas trees to buy, whether artificial or real. So, that was a good experience because Is it made us focus on what really is the meaning of Christmas.
Jim Newheiser: When we were in Saudi Arabia, Christmas was a work day–it was just one other day. We did smuggle in a tree. When we left the country, and we were kicked out, the tree was a very valuable thing. We could have got a lot of money for it from westerners, who lack such. We gave it to some favorite person. When we were in Saudi Arabia, it was also an opportunity for hospitality.
Caroline Newheiser: Yeah. So we were part of an underground Christian Church; which a couple of things happened because of that. One is that we had many people there on single status with no family around, and again it was a work day. So, we ended up inviting people over for a big party, for mostly men. Then we’re able to sit outside because it was warm. And we enjoyed being the mama and the papa for the group, the house that had Christmas.
Jim Newheiser: The mama and the papa, who in their early 20s.
Caroline Newheiser: The other aspect is the British Embassy would have their own Christmas service. So, Jim was able to arrange for an Anglican Evangelical priest to come. And that was a special time to gather with a large group of people who wanted to celebrate Christmas together.
Jim Newheiser: They were gathering sometimes, like on the embassy grounds, as well as in homes.
Dale Johnson: Man, that’s very interesting. Because I mean in our world, when you’re particularly in the west, you don’t think about the limitations that are placed on holidays such as Christmas in different parts of the world. And yeah, that’s an interesting part of the story of God’s providence in your life, where Jim, you’re actually wearing a Grinch tie today. I would never associate you with a Grinch, but here you were in, like, not wanting to celebrate Christmas. And then the Lord takes you to Saudi Arabia, where you just have a different appreciation for the celebration of Christmas. That’s such an interesting part of the story. I love it, and I don’t picture you in my mind as some sort of Grinch. So, you’re living the opposite today.
Jim Newheiser: Thank you very much, because there are many others who think otherwise.
Dale Johnson: I love it. I’m sure those are special memories, being able to be hospitable in a different cultural context. But even raising that value of the idea of Christmas, talk about some of the things now. I mean, you’ve been back in the States for several years. You served as a pastor, Jim, in Escondido for a long time. And talk about some of the ways that you guys maybe even prepare your own heart, during this time of a year, to think about Christmas in the first coming of Christ. What are some of the special things that you guys think about or do? It could be with your church family, or even in your home.
Jim Newheiser: We’ve tried to have devotions in dinner. We are always varying it, but it could be reading parts of that or of the Christmas tree from Scripture. Right now, we’re reading a book together with whoever’s at our table, by Johnny Gibson, Christmas Liturgy (O Come, O Come, Emmanuel: A Liturgy for Daily Worship from Advent to Epiphany.) We’re taking selections out of that from different famous people through history. Caroline is really into Advent calendars, which are not necessary. It’s preparing our heart for enthusiastic exciting things, they’re not all Christ-centered, but that’s a big ceremony every day to open the doors of multiple advent calendars, purchased from other places in the world.
Caroline Newheiser: So, we also realized that pastors pretty much have a workday. Some of them have a Christmas Eve service, some even a Christmas morning service, and if it falls on Sunday that also impacts what’s happening at home. But I try to make a big breakfast time–and our son is here from Australia. And he remembers the breakfast casserole, which is just a breakfast casserole, but to him in his mind, that is Christmas morning. My parents used to get sweet rolls from the Jewish Baker who didn’t care about working on Christmas morning. And that’s what we did as a kid.
Jim Newheiser: There’s another tradition we have, which isn’t all that spiritual, but we subscribe to the Hallmark Channel during the month of December, watching Christmas movies. And I’m thankful on my laptop I can watch sports while she’s watching the movie. But she really enjoys those, and It’s nice to have a wife who loves romance. So, I’m happy about that part.
Dale Johnson: Yeah, that’s actually quite fun. I mean, living in Kansas City where Hallmark is headquartered, It is interesting to see those shows. They have a similar plot, almost everyone. So, Jim, I’m sure you can watch a few plays, a football, and jump back in. And that’s really cool, even to talk about how your son thinks about that particular meal, as you know, associated distinctly with Christmas. That’s really cool stuff. Take us into Christmas Eve, Christmas day. We’ve been working the last several years. We picked up Sinclair Ferguson’s two volumes reading Advent (Love Came Down at Christmas and The Dawn of Redeeming Grace) leading up into Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, celebrating. We typically will go to, you know, a church service on Christmas Eve night. Talk about Christmas Eve, /Christmas Day. What does that look like? I mean, you guys have traveled different places, you have family located all around. How does that look like for you guys, Christmas Eve/Christmas day?
Jim Newheiser: In recent years, both of our mothers are widowed, and they’re in Texas and in North Carolina. So we will always travel to be with them. And often on Christmas/Christmas Eve, we might be with my mother and go to a Christmas Eve service and have Christmas morning with her. Then we’re driving through Texas, a couple hundred miles, to go be with her mom before the day is over. Sometimes it’s vice versa, and we go to a Christmas Eve with her mom. And in this stage of life, what actually happens on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day is whatever is most meaningful to our moms. Thankfully, they both want to go to church. And then we have kids who are also spread all over the place, and so we try to meet up with them.
Caroline Newheiser: So this year, I’m wearing my Santa hat, and we’re getting on a plane on Christmas day, and flying to San Diego to see grandkids.
Jim Newheiser: So, we’re seeing moms and then late in the day, we’re flying to see some grandkids on the West Coast. And that’s more challenging because our children are into Christmas for the secular reasons. And we’re limited in, and it is a little sad to us, when we can’t be as explicitly God-honoring and God focused in those situations, especially when we’re in their homes and have to respect how they do things. We seek to make the best of it.
Caroline Newheiser: But I will say our sons love Christmas music. So, we used to go caroling when Jim was a pastor to the homes of people we knew were in at home that night, or old people and surprising them at the door, singing Christmas hymns. And we all like to sing.
Jim Newheiser: Yeah. That they’ll do one of our better family traditions as we get all sing parts, and we go around the neighborhood singing.
Caroline Newheiser: or to church people.
Jim Newheiser: all over the place.
Dale Johnson: I love that. Jim and Caroline, you guys, you’re speaking to a lot of people who their children are not believers, and they have to think through that this time of year. I think you’re giving them some good ideas on how do you still focus on Jesus? It could be just through music or just through the ministry of you being there and just being an encouragement. And your children, know that your focus this time of year is the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ, and keeping focus upon that. So, I think that’s very helpful, honestly, in your willingness to go and be in their home and want to be with grandkids and so on during this time of years. It’s really important. And I have to say, your adaptability in all of this from early days of marriage in 1979, to Saudi Arabia, and now, with widowed moms. Your adjustment has been incredible. I think this could be an encouragement for a lot of people. I want to finish, maybe, just with either some books that have been encouraging to you or ways in which you, from a personal perspective, or as a couple encourage each other to think about the Incarnation this time of year. One of the things that my mind goes to consistently is just really thinking about the Incarnation of Christ and the beauty of Him coming, and that was a fulfillment of prophecy–that God let us in on that secret. For many years before that happened. He’s promised to come again–to think about that second Advent. So, there have been certain books and volumes that have been very helpful to me and an encouragement in our family to think about. Talk about maybe some of the ways that it’s very materialized and secularized in our world. How do we keep our heart really centered on the Incarnation and what the season is really about?
Caroline Newheiser: I’m working through a book that a friend wrote. Her name is Ana Portillo called, The Carol of Comfort, it is a study of Zechariah’s doubt and frustration. And she, I believe, has struggled with her own melancholy. Especially with Christmas, that there’s a difficult time for women who are infertile. And now we’re talking about a baby coming and celebration of babies in the manger. So, her book has been helpful to me this year in particular
Jim Newheiser: We’re going through this devotional, Johnny Gibson edited, it has a whole liturgy. I will confess, we don’t do the whole thing, or it might take 45 minutes, but I’m selecting readings and parts of it each night. I guess maybe like our traditions have varied, and our devotions vary as well. There’s not one thing we go back to every year other than the Scriptures. We’re looking for different things. And thankful that the world stops, at least for a day. Well, even the Middle East, they knew was going on. It would give us half a day off. Yeah, they would generously come around after lunch and say, “You can go home now, It’s Christmas.”
Dale Johnson: That’s great. Caroline, you even mentioned, and I think this is so critical, my wife and I talked about this a lot is when you hear the Christmas music and the rich theology that you hear in so many of the Christmas hymns that are sung, and then secular artist are singing them. And we’re just like, “Man, we wish that they could grasp the beauty of the Gospel.” But it’s a thing that you hear everywhere that you go, particularly in the west, and man, what a way for us to capitalize on it. And as we hear those songs, we can encourage others with the meaning that’s behind those particular things. I can’t get away without asking, maybe, you know, one of the more important questions: Jim, what are the critical things that that make Christmas meals? What are some of those items? I mean, you know, we’ve just come out of Thanksgiving, with some distinct food items. What are some of the critical things, as your son said, that make Christmas breakfast, lunch, or dinner or whatever. So what are some of those items in the Newheiser home?
Jim Newheiser: Lots of meat, no brussels sprouts. And Caroline makes amazing pies; She’s the pie master.
Dale Johnson: I love it. Well, we’re going to have to take her up on that here pretty soon. I think that would be good to get some taste testing of the pies.
Jim Newheiser: One other thing that occurred to me when Caroline talked about music is we always have gone to concerts that have Christmas music. But our first year in Saudi Arabia when Caroline was pregnant with our first child, there was a choral group that did the Messiah, in Saudi Arabia in the American school. And we both sang in it, and that was a very happy memory. It was kind of funny, like we could get by with that, because it was choral music. Even though, we weren’t allowed to meet formally for worship.
Dale Johnson: That is very cool. Well, this is this has been fun, always as we get this time of year, and we think about the birth of our Lord and what He came to do: to die and to save His people from their sins. We are so grateful for that and grateful to serve in the ministry alongside of you guys. I’m so thankful for all the work that you do. Thanks for sharing a little bit about your ministry and your life, thinking about Christmas as well. We love you guys, and I’m so grateful that people get to hear a little bit about you and your story and how you celebrate this time of year.
Jim Newheiser: Thank you for inviting me.
Caroline Newheiser: Thank you, Dale.
Join us in praising the Lord for Christ’s birth! Merry Christmas from all of us at ACBC!